hagel is at the center of it, but it's about much more than just chuck hagel. andrea. >> let me just interject also, kelly, that there is an issue here. the defense ministers meet at nato next week in brussels. they want chuck hagel, the administration wants chuck hagel, the new defense secretary to be leading this going forward. they don't want to have to ask leon panetta, who is still the defense secretary, to go and lead the delegation as a lame-duck. chris, this gets to entrance, and that's why, among other reasons, the white house is so frustrated, and those who have been raising these benghazi issues are really holding the white house hostage on when did the president call and was he up all night? those are the kinds of questions they've been asking. hagel had nothing to do with benghazi. >> absolutely true, andrea, but i would say, look, this is -- kelly used the phrase leverage point, and whether you like it or not, that's what republicans view this as. i would say that the white house has two very clear choices. they either say okay, we will give until